[TI] Catholic church ban on Mormons accessingSacramentalrecords.

Wed May 7 09:55:28 CDT 2008

Gloria,

Without going into religion, I hope the Vatican digitizes their parish
records like they're been doing in the records of the Vatican Secret
Archives. That would preserve the records while allowing them to retain
control. Of course, I hope they'd be willing to share them with the
descendants.

Kathy Kirkpatrick
GenTracer
PO Box 11955
Salt Lake City, UT 84147
801 755 6991
www.gentracer.com
gentracer at gentracer.com

-----Original Message-----
From: terminiimerese-bounces at comunesofitaly.org
[mailto:terminiimerese-bounces at comunesofitaly.org]On Behalf Of Gloria
Otto
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:53 PM
To: terminiimerese at comunesofitaly.org
Subject: Re: [TI] Catholic church ban on Mormons
accessingSacramentalrecords.

If your cousin married a Mormon, would your cousin's ancestors as well as
yours be likely to be baptized after death by the Mormons? That is a problem
for some. I also think we should not be talking about religion. I mentioned
it because we may have a problem as a genealogist obtaining records.

As soon as the word religion comes up on the list, it is followed by some
pretty strong comments. Since we are family we try to be kind and
respectful. It doesn't seem to follow for certain topics. So back to
genealogy records.
Peace.
Gloria

-----Original Message-----
From: terminiimerese-bounces at comunesofitaly.org
[mailto:terminiimerese-bounces at comunesofitaly.org] On Behalf Of Sally Glenn
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:53 PM
To: terminiimerese at comunesofitaly.org
Subject: Re: [TI] Catholic church ban on Mormans
accessingSacramentalrecords.

Dear Friends,
This whole thing sounds pretty stupid to me. Why are we as followers of
Christ worried about Mormons baptitizing their relatives after death? We
know the truth. This is impossible. Baptism is a sacrament of initiation
which opens us up to the gift of grace which leads us to Christ and life
everlasting.
Peace,
Sally Ann Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "nell lamantia" <nellie at woh.rr.com>
To: <terminiimerese at comunesofitaly.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TI] Catholic church ban on Mormans
accessingSacramentalrecords.

> Sounds pretty obstinate to me.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gloria Otto" <gotto at ameritech.net>
> To: <terminiimerese at comunesofitaly.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TI] Catholic church ban on Mormans
> accessingSacramentalrecords.
>
>
>> This does not sound good for genealogists. From the Catholic News
>> Service:
>> http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802443.htm
>>
>> VATICAN-MORMONS May-2-2008 (1,010 words) xxxn
>> Vatican letter directs bishops to keep parish records from Mormons
>> By Chaz Muth
>> Catholic News Service
>> WASHINGTON (CNS) -- In an effort to block posthumous rebaptisms by the
>> Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Catholic dioceses throughout
>> the world have been directed by the Vatican not to give information in
>> parish registers to the Mormons' Genealogical Society of Utah.
>>
>> An April 5 letter from the Vatican Congregation for Clergy, obtained by
>> Catholic News Service in late April, asks episcopal conferences to direct
>> all bishops to keep the Latter-day Saints from microfilming and
>> digitizing
>> information contained in those registers.
>>
>> The order came in light of "grave reservations" expressed in a Jan. 29
>> letter from the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the
>> clergy congregation's letter said.
>> Father James Massa, executive director of the U.S. bishops' Secretariat
>> of
>> Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, said
>>
>> the step was taken to prevent the Latter-day Saints from using records --
>> such as baptismal documentation -- to posthumously baptize by proxy the
>> ancestors of church members.
>> Posthumous baptisms by proxy have been a common practice for the
>> Latter-day Saints -- commonly known as Mormons -- for more than a
>> century,
>> allowing the church's faithful to have their ancestors baptized into
>> their
>> faith so they may be united in the afterlife, said Mike Otterson, a
>> spokesman in the church's Salt Lake City headquarters.
>>
>> In a telephone interview with CNS May 1, Otterson said he wanted a chance
>> to review the contents of the letter before commenting on how it will
>> affect the Mormons' relationship with the Catholic Church.
>> "This dicastery is bringing this matter to the attention of the various
>> conferences of bishops," the letter reads. "The congregation requests
>> that
>> the conference notifies each diocesan bishop in order to ensure that such
>> a detrimental practice is not permitted in his territory, due to the
>> confidentiality of the faithful and so as not to cooperate with the
>> erroneous practices of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
>> The letter is dated 10 days before Pope Benedict XVI's April 15-20 U.S.
>> visit, during which he presided over an ecumenical prayer service
>> attended
>> by two Mormon leaders. It marked the first time Mormons had participated
>> in a papal prayer service.
>>
>> Father Massa said he could see how the policy stated in the letter could
>> strain relations between the Catholic Church and the Latter-day Saints.
>> "It certainly has that potential," he said. "But I would also say that
>> the
>> purpose of interreligious dialogue is not to only identify agreements,
>> but
>> also to understand our differences. As Catholics, we have to make very
>> clear to them their practice of so-called rebaptism is unacceptable from
>> the standpoint of Catholic truth."
>> The Catholic Church will eventually open a dialogue with the Mormons
>> about
>> the rebaptism issue, Father Massa said, "but we are at the beginning of
>> the beginning of a new relationship with the LDS. The first step in any
>> dialogue is to establish trust and to seek friendship."
>>
>> The two faiths share intrinsic viewpoints on key issues the United States
>> is facing, particularly the pro-life position on abortion and an
>> opposition to same-sex marriage.
>> However, theological differences have cropped up between Mormons and
>> Catholics in the past.
>>
>> In 2001 the Vatican's doctrinal congregation issued a ruling that baptism
>> conferred by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot be
>> considered a valid Christian baptism, thus requiring converts from that
>> religion to Catholicism to receive a Catholic baptism.
>> "We don't have an issue with the fact that the Catholic Church doesn't
>> recognize our baptisms, because we don't recognize theirs," Otterson
>> said.
>> "It's a difference of belief."
>> When issuing its 2001 ruling, the Vatican said that even though the
>> Mormon
>> baptismal rite refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the church's
>> beliefs about the identity of the three persons are so different from
>> Catholic and mainline Christian belief that the rite cannot be regarded
>> as
>> a Christian baptism.
>> Latter-day Saints regard Jesus and the Holy Spirit as children of the
>> Father and the Heavenly Mother. They believe that baptism was instituted
>> by the Father, not Christ, and that it goes back to Adam and Eve.
>>
>> Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald -- vicar general of the Diocese of Salt Lake
>> City -- said he didn't understand why the Latter-day Saints church was
>> singled out in this latest Vatican policy regarding parish records.
>> "We have a policy not to give out baptismal records to anyone unless they
>> are entitled to have them," Msgr. Fitzgerald said of his diocese. "That
>> isn't just for the Church of the Latter-day Saints. That is for all
>> groups."
>> Though he said the Salt Lake City Diocese has enjoyed a long-standing
>> dialogue with the Latter-day Saints, Msgr. Fitzgerald said the diocese
>> does not support giving the Mormons names for the sake of rebaptism.
>> Mormons have been criticized by several other faiths -- perhaps most
>> passionately by the Jews -- for the church's practice of posthumous
>> baptism.
>>
>> Members of the Latter-day Saints believe baptizing their ancestors by
>> proxy gives the dead an opportunity to embrace the faith in the
>> afterlife.
>> The actual baptism-by-proxy ceremony occurs in a Mormon temple, and is
>> intended to wash sins away for the commencement of church membership.
>> Jewish leaders have called the practice arrogant and said it is
>> disrespectful to the dead, especially Holocaust victims.
>>
>> "Baptism by proxy is a fundamentally important doctrine of the Latter-day
>> Saints," Otterson said. "We have cooperative relationships with churches,
>> governments -- both state and national -- going back to the last century.
>>
>> Our practice of negotiating for records and making them available for
>> genealogical research is very well known."
>> Father Massa said he is not aware of aggressive attempts to obtain
>> baptismal records at Catholic parishes in any of the U.S. dioceses.
>> He also said the Catholic Church will continue to reach out to the
>> Mormons
>> and carry on the efforts of understanding that have already begun,
>> especially in Salt Lake City.
>> "Profound theological differences are not an excuse for avoiding
>> dialogue,
>> but a reason for pursuing dialogue," Father Massa said.
>> END
>>
>> Gloria
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Joseph Laiacona <joseph at laiacona.org>
>> To: terminiimerese at comunesofitaly.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 12:57:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TI] Catholic church ban on Mormans
>> accessingSacramentalrecords.
>>
>> As I believe it is practiced...
>>
>> the Mormons use the records to trace their family lineage. They have to
>> have
>> proof that the ancestors they are submitting for baptism are actually
>> their
>> ancestors.
>>
>> Once they prove that one (or more) of the names they submit are indeed
>> ancestors, those ancestors are then joined by baptism to the church and
>> therefore saved.
>>
>> It has nothing to do with saving strangers... It's their ancestors they
>> want
>> to be with in Mormon heaven.
>>
>> Joe
>> who is not a Mormon...
>>
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>
>
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