[TI] Catholic church ban on Mormans accessingSacramentalrecords.

Tue May 6 14:59:29 CDT 2008

Did our "termini" website all of sudden morph into a website on
theology?  It seems to be getting off-track!

B. J. Merella  

-----Original Message-----
From: terminiimerese-bounces at comunesofitaly.org
[mailto:terminiimerese-bounces at comunesofitaly.org] On Behalf Of Sally
Glenn
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:53 PM
To: terminiimerese at comunesofitaly.org
Subject: Re: [TI] Catholic church ban on Mormans
accessingSacramentalrecords.

Dear Friends,
This whole thing sounds pretty stupid to me. Why are we as followers of
Christ worried about Mormons baptitizing their relatives after death? We
know the truth. This is impossible. Baptism is a sacrament of initiation
which opens us up to the gift of grace which leads us to Christ and life
everlasting.
Peace,
Sally Ann Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "nell lamantia" <nellie at woh.rr.com>
To: <terminiimerese at comunesofitaly.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TI] Catholic church ban on Mormans
accessingSacramentalrecords.

> Sounds pretty obstinate to me.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gloria Otto" <gotto at ameritech.net>
> To: <terminiimerese at comunesofitaly.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [TI] Catholic church ban on Mormans 
> accessingSacramentalrecords.
>
>
>> This does not sound good for genealogists. From the Catholic News
>> Service:
>> http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802443.htm
>>
>> VATICAN-MORMONS May-2-2008 (1,010 words) xxxn Vatican letter directs 
>> bishops to keep parish records from Mormons By Chaz Muth Catholic 
>> News Service WASHINGTON (CNS) -- In an effort to block posthumous 
>> rebaptisms by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 
>> Catholic dioceses throughout the world have been directed by the 
>> Vatican not to give information in parish registers to the Mormons' 
>> Genealogical Society of Utah.
>>
>> An April 5 letter from the Vatican Congregation for Clergy, obtained 
>> by Catholic News Service in late April, asks episcopal conferences to

>> direct all bishops to keep the Latter-day Saints from microfilming 
>> and digitizing information contained in those registers.
>>
>> The order came in light of "grave reservations" expressed in a Jan. 
>> 29 letter from the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the 
>> Faith, the clergy congregation's letter said.
>> Father James Massa, executive director of the U.S. bishops' 
>> Secretariat of Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, said
>>
>> the step was taken to prevent the Latter-day Saints from using 
>> records -- such as baptismal documentation -- to posthumously baptize

>> by proxy the ancestors of church members.
>> Posthumous baptisms by proxy have been a common practice for the 
>> Latter-day Saints -- commonly known as Mormons -- for more than a 
>> century, allowing the church's faithful to have their ancestors 
>> baptized into their faith so they may be united in the afterlife, 
>> said Mike Otterson, a spokesman in the church's Salt Lake City 
>> headquarters.
>>
>> In a telephone interview with CNS May 1, Otterson said he wanted a 
>> chance to review the contents of the letter before commenting on how 
>> it will affect the Mormons' relationship with the Catholic Church.
>> "This dicastery is bringing this matter to the attention of the 
>> various conferences of bishops," the letter reads. "The congregation 
>> requests that the conference notifies each diocesan bishop in order 
>> to ensure that such a detrimental practice is not permitted in his 
>> territory, due to the confidentiality of the faithful and so as not 
>> to cooperate with the erroneous practices of the Church of Jesus 
>> Christ of Latter-day Saints."
>> The letter is dated 10 days before Pope Benedict XVI's April 15-20
U.S.
>> visit, during which he presided over an ecumenical prayer service 
>> attended by two Mormon leaders. It marked the first time Mormons had 
>> participated in a papal prayer service.
>>
>> Father Massa said he could see how the policy stated in the letter 
>> could strain relations between the Catholic Church and the Latter-day
Saints.
>> "It certainly has that potential," he said. "But I would also say 
>> that the purpose of interreligious dialogue is not to only identify 
>> agreements, but also to understand our differences. As Catholics, we 
>> have to make very clear to them their practice of so-called rebaptism

>> is unacceptable from the standpoint of Catholic truth."
>> The Catholic Church will eventually open a dialogue with the Mormons 
>> about the rebaptism issue, Father Massa said, "but we are at the 
>> beginning of the beginning of a new relationship with the LDS. The 
>> first step in any dialogue is to establish trust and to seek 
>> friendship."
>>
>> The two faiths share intrinsic viewpoints on key issues the United 
>> States is facing, particularly the pro-life position on abortion and 
>> an opposition to same-sex marriage.
>> However, theological differences have cropped up between Mormons and 
>> Catholics in the past.
>>
>> In 2001 the Vatican's doctrinal congregation issued a ruling that 
>> baptism conferred by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 
>> cannot be considered a valid Christian baptism, thus requiring 
>> converts from that religion to Catholicism to receive a Catholic
baptism.
>> "We don't have an issue with the fact that the Catholic Church 
>> doesn't recognize our baptisms, because we don't recognize theirs," 
>> Otterson said.
>> "It's a difference of belief."
>> When issuing its 2001 ruling, the Vatican said that even though the 
>> Mormon baptismal rite refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the 
>> church's beliefs about the identity of the three persons are so 
>> different from Catholic and mainline Christian belief that the rite 
>> cannot be regarded as a Christian baptism.
>> Latter-day Saints regard Jesus and the Holy Spirit as children of the

>> Father and the Heavenly Mother. They believe that baptism was 
>> instituted by the Father, not Christ, and that it goes back to Adam
and Eve.
>>
>> Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald -- vicar general of the Diocese of Salt 
>> Lake City -- said he didn't understand why the Latter-day Saints 
>> church was singled out in this latest Vatican policy regarding parish
records.
>> "We have a policy not to give out baptismal records to anyone unless 
>> they are entitled to have them," Msgr. Fitzgerald said of his 
>> diocese. "That isn't just for the Church of the Latter-day Saints. 
>> That is for all groups."
>> Though he said the Salt Lake City Diocese has enjoyed a long-standing

>> dialogue with the Latter-day Saints, Msgr. Fitzgerald said the 
>> diocese does not support giving the Mormons names for the sake of
rebaptism.
>> Mormons have been criticized by several other faiths -- perhaps most 
>> passionately by the Jews -- for the church's practice of posthumous 
>> baptism.
>>
>> Members of the Latter-day Saints believe baptizing their ancestors by

>> proxy gives the dead an opportunity to embrace the faith in the 
>> afterlife.
>> The actual baptism-by-proxy ceremony occurs in a Mormon temple, and 
>> is intended to wash sins away for the commencement of church
membership.
>> Jewish leaders have called the practice arrogant and said it is 
>> disrespectful to the dead, especially Holocaust victims.
>>
>> "Baptism by proxy is a fundamentally important doctrine of the 
>> Latter-day Saints," Otterson said. "We have cooperative relationships

>> with churches, governments -- both state and national -- going back
to the last century.
>>
>> Our practice of negotiating for records and making them available for

>> genealogical research is very well known."
>> Father Massa said he is not aware of aggressive attempts to obtain 
>> baptismal records at Catholic parishes in any of the U.S. dioceses.
>> He also said the Catholic Church will continue to reach out to the 
>> Mormons and carry on the efforts of understanding that have already 
>> begun, especially in Salt Lake City.
>> "Profound theological differences are not an excuse for avoiding 
>> dialogue, but a reason for pursuing dialogue," Father Massa said.
>> END
>>
>> Gloria
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Joseph Laiacona <joseph at laiacona.org>
>> To: terminiimerese at comunesofitaly.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 12:57:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TI] Catholic church ban on Mormans 
>> accessingSacramentalrecords.
>>
>> As I believe it is practiced...
>>
>> the Mormons use the records to trace their family lineage. They have 
>> to have proof that the ancestors they are submitting for baptism are 
>> actually their ancestors.
>>
>> Once they prove that one (or more) of the names they submit are 
>> indeed ancestors, those ancestors are then joined by baptism to the 
>> church and therefore saved.
>>
>> It has nothing to do with saving strangers... It's their ancestors 
>> they want to be with in Mormon heaven.
>>
>> Joe
>> who is not a Mormon...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TerminiImerese mailing list
>> TerminiImerese at comunesofitaly.org
>> http://comunesofitaly.org/mailman/listinfo/terminiimerese_comunesofit
>> aly.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TerminiImerese mailing list
> TerminiImerese at comunesofitaly.org
> http://comunesofitaly.org/mailman/listinfo/terminiimerese_comunesofita
> ly.org
> 

_______________________________________________
TerminiImerese mailing list
TerminiImerese at comunesofitaly.org
http://comunesofitaly.org/mailman/listinfo/terminiimerese_comunesofitaly
.org